Heart Medicine with Fernando Gonzalez
“I think everybody has a tipping point in their lives. It can be a disease. It can be a financial loss, a divorce…If we can really recognize that those are tipping points we can see the opportunity as a process of growth.” - Fernando Gonzales
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Fernando Gonzalez
In this episode we explore the intersection of neuroscience and spirituality, and how psilocybin is a regenerative path to healing trauma.
Fernando is my personal shaman, doctor, and healer. We share a deeply intimate conversation of the tipping points in both of our lives that lead to the path of plant medicine.
This episode will shed light on the effects of PTSD, the impact of trauma on the brain, and how mushrooms can provide a safe and gentle approach to turning off the alarm bells.
Fernando shares his multidimensional approach to healing, integration, and the ingredients needed to open your heart again.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform. Favorite quotes and a full transcript of this podcast can be found below.
About Fernando Gonzalez
Fernando has been working with psychedelics for over 16 years, primarily with ayahuasca and mushrooms, as well as studying their application and influence in the neurological field and their influences on the perception of relative reality and field of consciousness.
He has developed 16 microdosing protocols with different types of mushrooms to support mental health, including degenerative diseases (Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and senile Dementia) as well as for depression, addictions, ADHD, OCD, PTSD, and cluster migraines, among others. He has designed over 3,000 personalized microdosing treatments for individuals in 25 countries.
He has accompanied and supported the integration process of 300 people in macrodoses with Ayahuasca and mushrooms in Brazil, Peru, and Mexico. This experience, combined with his specialization in agroforestry, knowledge of plants, natural supplements, and adaptogens, has allowed him to design and produce specific formulas to support comprehensive health by selecting the best genetic material.
He has been a practitioner of meditation traditions such as tantric Buddhism for many years.
Favorite Quotes from the Podcast
“I think everybody has a tipping point in their lives. It can be a disease. It can be a financial loss, a divorce…If we can really recognize that those are tipping points we can see the opportunity as a process of growth.”
“If we can release the energy of trauma from our physical body, then we heal. Plants open the door of space and time allowing us to observe other dimensions, past lives, karmic connections, and then the whole idea is to come back and to heal your physical body.”
Transcript of the Podcast
It is such an honor to connect you with Fernando Gonzalez. He is not only one of my personal healers and teachers, he is absolutely brilliant in his capacity to combine the spiritual world and neuroscience. Fernando has been working with psychedelics for over 16 years, primarily with ayahuasca and mushrooms.
He's also been studying their application and the neurological field and their influence on the perception of relative reality and the field of consciousness. He has personally developed 16 micro dosing protocols to support mental health and degenerative diseases, as well as supporting people with depression, addiction, ADHD, OCD, PTSD, cluster migraines, and so much more.
He has accompanied and supported the integration process of hundreds of people in macro doses with ayahuasca and mushrooms in Brazil, Peru, and Mexico. He has also been a practitioner of meditation traditions such as tantric Buddhism for many years. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. I can't wait for you to experience Fernando's open heart and his brilliant mind.
So let's drop it.
[00:01:48] ERIKA STRAUB: I would love to start with just how you even started. This work, how you started, um, working with mushrooms and kind of what pulled you to this space? Well, uh, I, I studied business administration to tell you that today was in the mergers and acquisition business for about 20 years.
[00:02:09] FERNANDO GONZALES: And 16 years ago, I would, I did an acquisition on a company, uh, That it was, uh, we were doing the satellite dishes for Sky and DirecTV and we lost all our money in two weeks. So that was like the tipping point because I was trying to find meaning and purpose in, in that decision that I made in that moment.
[00:02:36] FERNANDO GONZALES: And I start to, to looking to start, I start to look for some meaning, some, some purpose. A lot of questions arises and start looking for a solution in order not to kill myself. I was like, in that moment, I was having a two year old daughter and my wife was pregnant. And we were kicked out of the house because I didn't have money to pay.
[00:03:07] FERNANDO GONZALES: So, uh, uh, my, my sister. She told me that there was going to come a chaman to Mexico, that he was going to do a ayahuasca ceremony. And she invited me. And I did three ayahuasca ceremonies in one week. And that was like the tipping point because I started healing myself. And, and just trying to find some, uh, some answers to my, uh, inner spirit, you know, trying to.
[00:03:40] FERNANDO GONZALES: Precisely to find meaning in, in what was coming next and what, how can I overcome a huge depression that I was inside at that moment? So that was the initial point. And I started doing ayahuasca, just to make a long story short, I did ayahuasca for 16 years. After the first four years, I started studying neuroscience, but neuroscience with applications to psychedelics.
[00:04:06] FERNANDO GONZALES: And I started trying, um, All the psychedelics that you can imagine. I, I tried DMT, salvia divinorum. Obviously, ayahuasca is my root plant. I start, uh, trying moshrooms. Hickory, that is the, the cactus as well. The peyote is known, very well known as peyote, and I start to, uh, to understand what was going on in my mind and also in, in my, in my heart.
[00:04:31] FERNANDO GONZALES: Mm-hmm, and in my soul, because it works in, in, in so many levels of reality. So I start studying neuroscience because I wanted to have like the, like the answers. To what was happening in my, in my mind, mainly, and how I was perceiving reality in a completely different point of view than four or five years ago.
[00:04:53] FERNANDO GONZALES: That was the initial point. And then, uh, well, six years, six years ago, uh, I started working very much with the mushroom because I was looking for a, for a plant medicine that can support my mother, my mother process. Let me tell you that I grew up with a depressed mother. She took 40 years of antidepressants.
[00:05:19] FERNANDO GONZALES: So I was willing to give her ayahuasca, but she was, she was too weak. To hold the medicine. So that was the the moment that I started looking for other medications and I found the motions And I did the first protocol for her And my surprise was that in 45 days she quit 40 years of antidepressants and that was the initial point She was my my first patient and This was like a huge discovery because at that moment six years ago, there was no information Information about the micro dosing and the motions and the and the effects in the SSRIs and in And other type of medications as well so I did this this protocol with a friend of mine that he at that moment.
[00:06:08] FERNANDO GONZALES: He was a He's he's brazilian he was the head of the neuroscience institute in brasilia he had We've been working very much with Ayahuasca, Mormons, LSD, and together we did the protocol and, and it was like an amazing initial point. And, and, you know, one thing started leading to the other. And after five years, A little bit more than five years, we have support more than 1000 people to get out of SSRIs and medications.
[00:06:42] FERNANDO GONZALES: So it was, it has been a beautiful process. Oh my gosh, I like, I've had such deep respect and, and love for you since we entered into this container, but to know your story and, The roots of where this started is, is such a gift. That's so powerful. I think everybody has a tipping point in their lives. It can be a disease.
[00:07:10] FERNANDO GONZALES: It can be a lost of, of, of your company can be a divorce. And, and those If we can really recognize that those are tipping points in our lives and we can see the opportunity in a process of growth, then we can start with the right fit in the process. It's so how we meet those moments because it feels like such reckonings and nothing can ever grow from it, but they end up being the most sacred Moments and so much transforms from them if if we can meet those moments.
[00:07:51] ERIKA STRAUB: And stay open, of course, for example, something similar happened to you, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like my, my trauma really catalyzed when I started having panic attacks in my early twenties, when my father passed away and I had done a really good job of keeping the lid on everything until all of that.
[00:08:16] ERIKA STRAUB: And after he passed and after that level of anxiety surfaced, it just, It took over my life. It took such a hold. On me, on my soul, on the people I surrounded myself with very like toxic guarded type relationships, just in a lot of danger. Um, and it's been such a pathway from that to heal, but there was such a soul calling to heal and medication wasn't really my route.
[00:08:50] ERIKA STRAUB: Like I supplemented here and there when the panic attacks got so bad. Um, with like benzos, but I, I didn't go the SSRI path cause I am so sensitive and it felt like this foreigner in my body. Um, totally not saying those medications don't have a place, but it didn't feel right in my body. And, um, I've done a lot of work to heal a lot in the therapeutic space, somatic space, yoga, breath work, you know, a lot of different modalities, but I couldn't get deep enough.
[00:09:26] ERIKA STRAUB: I couldn't get deep enough. And my pathway led me to connecting with you and really starting a microdose protocol. And it's only been three months. Maybe somewhere around that three months. And, um, I remember our first conversation that I came to saying that there's this block between me and intimacy.
[00:09:53] ERIKA STRAUB: There's this block between me, like deeply connecting with life, this block between me connecting with my horse, this block with me connecting deeply with a partner. I'm working with a horse whisperer with my horse and learning how to receive and, and have connection and contact and like wrap my legs around my horse and actually like breathe with her.
[00:10:31] ERIKA STRAUB: Um, And so much deeper in my body. So it's, it's truly revolutionary what this realm of medication and medicine can do. Like completely transformative.
[00:10:47] FERNANDO GONZALES: I mean, this is such an inspiration, Erica. Really hearing your story, uh, it's like bringing like a lot of hope to a lot of people. And, and, and the, the, the motions work, work like that, you know, there are the miscellaneous about connecting. It's about contact. It's about connection. The, the, the objective or the function of the motion in nature is to capture precisely the code of light.
[00:11:17] FERNANDO GONZALES: of the sun. And it's like an amplifier of signal because it throws that amplification through the mycelium and brings light to the underground. And that brings life into the plants and to the planet. So it does precisely the same thing. In, in our, in our physical body and in our brain, it's about connection.
[00:11:40] FERNANDO GONZALES: It connects our heart with our mind, with our emotions, with the people that surround us. With nature, obviously, with, with your horse, with animals, with your, with your pets, if you, if someone has a, a dog or a cat, it's amazing how the relation just, uh, goes into another level. It really does. And it is that amplification, which is so interesting.
[00:12:04] ERIKA STRAUB: Cause I, I think I'm not alone in this, but the pathway has always been, how do I numb this or how do I not feel this? You know, it's like the opposite. How do I avoid this? How do I manage this intensity? And the micro dosing has such an opposite effect of pharmaceuticals. Cause it's like, Oh no, we're going to feel this more.
[00:12:25] ERIKA STRAUB: We're going to feel more like we're amplifying what's here. And, and as I'm sure you remember the first couple of weeks that we started this process, I had some really big trauma responses come up that were like, terrifying and they opened up so much because it was taking me back to this root place that I could not feel before, but it was terrifying to have something amplified at first.
[00:12:53] FERNANDO GONZALES: It's because we, uh, We are used to deny the emotions, no? Like if there's a strong emotion or a difficult emotion, it's about, no, I don't want to feel anything. No, but this is precisely on the opposite. We need to feel in order to heal. If we do not feel, we just put everything in the Pandora box. No, this is, for example, precisely how the trauma operates in our brain.
[00:13:21] FERNANDO GONZALES: The defense mechanism of the brain is to break the interconnectivity where the trauma is allocated. And this is why we don't have access. We have fragmented access to the memory of the trauma. So it's like putting the trauma down in the Pandora box. But the problem is that even though it is in our own conscious mind, It is activated all the time.
[00:13:43] FERNANDO GONZALES: It is activated with with music is activated with with all our senses. Of course, it is activated. You're watching a movie, for example, and something is happening that is related to your trauma immediately activates and this activation has an, uh, make us an increase. In a neurotransmitter that is called noradrenaline, that is the one that put our body in an alert mode.
[00:14:10] FERNANDO GONZALES: When we activate the noradrenaline, it's like putting all of our senses in a risk mode. And this is why when we do not heal trauma, or when we have profound trauma, all the time we are in this alertness. That is called PTSD. So we need a lot of energy to maintain that process of alertness. And also, this PTSD that is Mostly, mainly by the increase in the noradrenaline triggers down our serotonin, because when we are in a, in a, in a risk mode, imagine that the information that you're bringing to your conscious mind is that you are running for your life, you don't have any need to eat, to sleep or to reproduce.
[00:14:58] FERNANDO GONZALES: This is precisely what the serotonin regulates. So it sacrifices the serotonin and the serotonin is a molecule. That connects you to life that brings joy that connects you to beauty that brings meaning and brings purpose. So this is why it's super important to heal our traumatic events of life by integration, integrating the process, because it's like, if you deactivate the bomb.
[00:15:24] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah. And this is very much what happened to you. It's exactly what it feels like, because when I started the Process I, I tapped in for the first time of how much deprivation I had been in because of this, this system just continuing to rev below the surface. And I had done a lot of work to where I wasn't in extreme survivalism by any means anymore, but there was still this PTSD in my system.
[00:15:55] ERIKA STRAUB: Absolutely. Like this, this deep lodged stress that I couldn't quite get to or turn off or resolve or release. And then when the increase of serotonin came in, I really felt like, wow, I've had this like void of serotonin that has not been there. Like, how could I, you know, bring more forward or, or connect to life when like I was so empty.
[00:16:21] ERIKA STRAUB: In that way. Well, uh, and this is precisely what you said is precisely what the micro dose does in your, in your body. No, the silocebin, when it enters into your body, it immediately converts in another molecule that is called silocene. That it's, uh, the It's a twin of the serotonin. It's the same. So the serotonin identified as a twin brother and just immediately binds and start to regulate the serotonin levels.
[00:16:50] FERNANDO GONZALES: So precisely because it works in the opposite direction. As the noradrenaline, we need to use the serotonin in our favor. So by increasing our serotonin, we reduce the noradrenaline. This is why so effective for reducing, uh, anxiety.
[00:17:08] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely have felt so much more ease, like the, the protective system that you're kind of speaking to when we have all of this trauma in this Pandora box, everything in our world feels like a threat. We read and code everything from a threat. And of course you're defensive then of course you're protective because you're in self preservation, but I've noticed because.
[00:17:34] ERIKA STRAUB: that isn't there anymore. The receptiveness I have now, like that capacity has expanded so much and it's just, it's dropping me into such a deep place. It's opening up, um, my truest connection to like the divine and to the spiritual part of me. And it's like, it's taking me to like these ancient places, like imagery and, um, meditations and time travel to like, it's just, it's, it's opening up this like spiritual dimension in me that I know has always been there, but like in such a, like, I don't even have the words to describe it.
[00:18:19] FERNANDO GONZALES: Wow. It's, it's beautiful. And yes, uh, all the plants, you know, the mushrooms have been used since 7, 000 years, uh, years ago, and it's a magic plant. It's a powerful plant. Uh, you know, the chamans it's funny because in, in the ancient Greek, for example, uh, all the chamans were women. So all this plant medicine were shared through women.
[00:18:47] FERNANDO GONZALES: And precisely the idea was to connect with, with your inner self and, and with the goddess that you have in your inner self. So it works amazingly for, uh, allowing you to be much more grateful. And when you are open to, to be much more grateful, then you, it's like, if you open your devotion to God, you open your, this, this, uh, connectivity.
[00:19:13] FERNANDO GONZALES: Connectivity. With. Uh, with Israel, whatever is your, uh, your profession or your connection with the divinity, you know, doesn't matter. Uh, what is your approach? What is your religion? Because it has to do with your, uh, personal understanding on God and your own connection with God. But it's amazing how, how this connection just, uh, immediately increases.
[00:19:42] ERIKA STRAUB: Like immediately. And I feel like it's so heart opening and why, why does that happen? How does, how does it help us open our heart? Like, that's just what I feel so much from this process is just this deeper, deeper heart opening. And I think I'm just scratching the surface to be honest, but that part feels.
[00:20:04] ERIKA STRAUB: Like, completely. I think it has to do with several things. One is the recognition of beauty. For example, when you are deeply stressed or when you, uh, have a deep trauma and you are in this risk mode that we just talk about, you don't have time to connect with, with beauty. It's like if you cannot recognize beauty and by recognizing beauty also, you become more open from the heart because, well, it is said that, that beauty is your connection to the devotion and devotion is your connection with God, you know, so By increasing, it's incredible, but by increasing the serotonin, you know, you feel much more relaxed and then all the energy that you were using for sustain a state of hyper alertness, it's been used.
[00:21:00] FERNANDO GONZALES: For connecting with yourself with connecting with the beauty of a flower, you know, with your partner. So you also have more energy and your levels of stress reduce amazingly and you don't feel depressed anymore. So all this has to do as well with feeling more grateful for life. That's absolutely what it feels like.
[00:21:24] FERNANDO GONZALES: Yeah. So I think these two, uh, these two important things is the connection with, with the beauty and your connection with, uh, with the grace of God through the, to being grateful with, with life. Yeah. There's, there's like a, a coherence that feels like is here now, as opposed to like resisting life or being an opposition to life or like unable to accept.
[00:21:55] ERIKA STRAUB: Life or love or what is happening in front of me that part feels like it's Dissolved a lot. Uh, it's, it's also this beautiful reconnection to sensitivity. Cause I think our sensitivity, I'll speak for myself was made to be so wrong. And it was kind of the, the reason I had so much trauma because I was so sensitive and, um, I put a wall between myself and others and my, a wall between myself and the world because of the sensitivity.
[00:22:32] ERIKA STRAUB: And I feel like this process has helped dissolve that wall. So there's so much receiving happening from like the relational field, like into my own energy and sensitivity is becoming like such a gift, but I've had to build capacity to be able to receive that much sensitivity. Well, that's a beautiful way to perceive it, Erika.
[00:22:59] FERNANDO GONZALES: And I think that has to do very much, if we talk in terms of neuroscience, there's an area of the brain that is called the default mode network. This is our automatic response to life. And what happens when you take plants, for example, and the microdose, is that this area becomes much more flexible. It reduces the noise.
[00:23:24] FERNANDO GONZALES: And this area. The, the importance of this area is where we held our ego is where we created this armor that connect us to life to survive. It's our reference of present, past, and future. So when you take a microdose, you reduce the noise, and by reducing the noise, you reduce the, the ego. It's like a dissolution of the ego.
[00:23:55] FERNANDO GONZALES: If there's no ego, there's no trauma. Mm. So it allows you to break this armor that we all created during our lives to just to survive. So this, I think this is another important point, um, because it's like a solution of the ego makes you feel more empathic, more, uh, you feel more, uh, conscious about others, of course, more, uh, compassionate.
[00:24:24] FERNANDO GONZALES: About about others. So this is another important point in the micro dosing. Yeah, and I remember, um, maybe even from our first conversation months ago that a lot of this work a lot of the mushroom is pressing against our defensive system to let go, like helping that whole system kind of come apart and the micro dose doing that much more gently than a macro dose.
[00:24:52] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah. And as you and I are deepening into this work, and I'm starting to step into what is it going to look like to do bigger and more of this work and have that experience. Um, I'm just curious if you could speak to kind of the different experience of the defensive system being pressed against or open from a micro level.
[00:25:13] ERIKA STRAUB: And then the defensive system being really. Pressed against with like a macro dose. Okay. Well, it has to do with, uh, with two things. One is precisely the default mode network. The default mode network is where we have our defense mechanism. Well, it's our reaction to life, our automatic reaction to life. So in the moment that we start to to heal the trauma, we start to change our programming in our brain.
[00:25:50] FERNANDO GONZALES: So what was a threat before Now it's a connection of joy. So in this area of the brain, that is very well studied by science, you know, the, it starts in the front, love this. It goes into the back and then it has a connection between the both hemispheres. A is where we have all that we're programming. So if you do a macro goals, for example, what happened with the macro goals is that you break.
[00:26:26] FERNANDO GONZALES: The default mode network for about three or four hours. And this is the dissolution completely of the ego. A lot of people, probably the people that have, that have done some plans before ayahuasca or even LSD or, or silo sieving modems. They have done macro doses, they experienced this dissolution of the ego and is the aha moment in which you, you, you understand that we are all connected at some level and then you are connected in, in your, you connect your spirit with God because you don't have you.
[00:27:01] FERNANDO GONZALES: So that has to do very much what happened with the macro dose and the micro dose. What is the challenge between the micro and the macro? When you do a macro dose, the challenge is because we have a gap between the information that we receive and our neurosis, our, our programming. And then from that information is this programming is how we decodify the information that we are receiving and how do we apply it.
[00:27:29] FERNANDO GONZALES: In our daily life, this is part of the integration process. What happened with the microdose is that this process is, uh, it's in a day of, it's in a day basis. So the insights that you are having are so clear that there's no gap between what you, you are perceiving and what, what is the reality. That you are having, you know, so in this insights from the microdose, you can immediately apply them to your daily life.
[00:28:02] FERNANDO GONZALES: Why, what, why is this? Well, uh, the psilocybin, what it does is an increase of a protein that is called neurotrophic factor of the brain. This protein is the key. Because this protein is the one that heals. And reconnect the neurons in the brain. So imagine if you have a deep trauma, or, uh, it also works, uh, with people that, that, uh, have dementia, for example, very well.
[00:28:32] FERNANDO GONZALES: Because when we increase this interconnectivity, we reduce the, we reduce the broken areas of the brain, generated mainly by aging, by the use of drugs. And alcohol, cannabis and thereby trauma. So all these three together, they create these great clusters when we were, where the unconscious mind is allocated.
[00:28:59] FERNANDO GONZALES: So in the moment that you start to take the micro dose and you start to heal, then the beauty about this is that you start to integrate your unconscious mind to your consciousness, because you start to generate new pathways that, that do not exist in this precise moment. So, uh, If you do, for example, therapy, doing the process of microdosing, you accelerate the process because a therapist has the professional tools to take you into deeper process of your unconscious mind and to, uh, to go deep into the root of the trauma.
[00:29:38] FERNANDO GONZALES: So the process accelerates very much. So I think these two, these two conditions that is the, the. The reduction on the noise of the default mode network and the increase in the neuroplasticity by reducing the gray areas of the brain are the keys for a deep healing process. And this connection to joy, beauty, meaning, purpose, uh, and the connection with God.
[00:30:08] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah, it, how you're describing it is exactly how it's felt in my body. You made that. Like what I'm perceiving and what I'm feeling is almost instantly just put into movement and into life. There's not this, like, what is all of this? I don't know about all this. I got to like, you know, be in this mess or this unknown with it and then try and communicate or translate or open.
[00:30:34] ERIKA STRAUB: It's just this like flow of like, this is what I'm feeling. I don't have to question what I'm feeling. Like it's, It's a feeling and then it's experience is experienced precisely. No, that's, that's exactly how it feels like. It's just almost instantaneous, instantaneous integration or instantaneous insight.
[00:30:57] ERIKA STRAUB: And it just is like continuing to keep moving. Um, and thinking about the macro doses. Because that's something we're talking about stepping into, um, it feels really confronting and really terrifying because it's asking the two things that I've learned to do so well to survive, which has been to control and to hold on.
[00:31:21] ERIKA STRAUB: And I'm curious if you could speak into that. How does someone who wants to control and hold on step into experiences that really confront that? Well, that's part of the healing process. Because we really don't have control of anything. Just sometimes of our breath. So the microdoses start precisely with, uh, with, uh, an attachment on, on our control, you know, and I think it's, uh, an experience, an ongoing experience through the process, because in the moment that you resist and you still want to control, you will see that it's much more difficult to handle it because you don't flow, you know?
[00:32:13] FERNANDO GONZALES: So there's a tipping point in which, okay. If I'm going to die, I need to die. And in that moment that you just surrender to the process, it completely changed and then you start just flowing. No, it's about float that your energy is flowing. So if you resist and you want to control this, like you are blocking your vital energy.
[00:32:37] ERIKA STRAUB: And that's, that's the whole piece that pulled me to this journey is so knowing how much I have been in resistance to my own energy flowing to my own emotions, moving through and releasing. Um, and it's just, it's so interesting too, because in partnership, there's this one part of me. That still comes up, um, or maybe it's coming up for the first time because of the depth of the relationship and the safety and openness of the container where I can feel it in my body, the resistance to let the feeling move all the way through the resistance to letting something complete and resolve and how much intensity that puts me in, like how much more suffering and endurance that puts me in because it's not.
[00:33:34] ERIKA STRAUB: Yet letting go. And so that's a big motivator for me to step more into this work because I know it's this resistance blocking me from like the deepest experience of intimacy, the deepest experience of connection, but I can feel it in my body. And it's so interesting because it lives in my jaw and it's like a clamping down as soon as like a really, really big depth of sensation or emotion wants to come through and be released.
[00:34:04] FERNANDO GONZALES: You know that, that's why when you do a macro dose, the first thing that we need to do is, is the, to set an intention. Because idea is to understand where is that fear coming from or that, uh, that control Mm-hmm. Coming from. And, and, and the medicine works amazingly because it takes you there to a deep comprehension.
[00:34:29] FERNANDO GONZALES: So if we can, in, in that process, you can really understand, uh, the, the, the root. Of, uh, of the condition that is holding you back, then you immediately release it. And sometimes it's so simple, you know, like, just like, it's just in front of my, of my nose. How could I, I didn't see this. Yeah. It feels right there.
[00:34:55] ERIKA STRAUB: And there's part of me that's like, I can probably work through this and resolve this in the other planes and continue. And also there's a deep knowing that this is going to move me through it in such a powerful, more embodied way and on a pace that's in alignment with my energy and my heart, because my energy and my heart want to move way quicker than you know some of these other modalities.
[00:35:25] ERIKA STRAUB: Can can access so I'm, I'm, and, and you develop so much trust in the mushroom itself. Like it has such wisdom. Yes, of, of course it's a, it's a kingdom. You're just the model. It's a new kingdom. It's a hybrid between an animal and a plant that connects to another level of consciousness. And for me, it's like opening, opening doors of perception because we have different realities.
[00:35:56] FERNANDO GONZALES: We have one reality that is one Israel, but we have many realities at the same time. So the Muslims and all the plants, mainly the power plants allow you to observe and have a deeper understanding on what is reality. And, uh, and, and this has to do with an integration of all the, all the realms, because we have a soul, we have a spirit, we have an upper, uh, an upper self.
[00:36:22] FERNANDO GONZALES: So in the moment that we can integrate everything together, Then we have a more fulfilling life. We are, it's much more coherent. If we talk about energy, it's the coherence of our self in all the dimensions. Yeah, will you say more about that? That was so beautiful. Yes, well, uh, we are, all our brain is created to operate in this realm.
[00:36:50] FERNANDO GONZALES: Of course, of course. So when we are very rational and we want to comprehend everything through our senses and studies, then we are very limited because science has a huge limitation. You know, imagine that, uh, for example, I can explain some of the things that happen with the morals and science and what happened to your brain, to your neuroplasticity, et cetera, but it's super limited what it's really happening in many other levels.
[00:37:22] FERNANDO GONZALES: Because we are, you know, our physical body is just a fraction of who we are. If we can only perceive just in light, 5 percent of the light that, that, that existed, no? And we can only hear 7 percent of the sounds, then imagine how limited is our perception of reality. So what's happened with the plants is that you start to open your heart to other dimensions.
[00:37:48] FERNANDO GONZALES: That your brain do not understand. So by opening your heart and connecting you with your soul and with your spirit, then you can transcend this limitation that is our physical body. And then you can start, you know, healing from, uh, like, like happened with a lot of shamans, uh, Or a lot of, of, of illuminated masters, they operate in about a level of consciousness and, uh, and, and the plans precisely, it's like putting the head out of the water just to see what's going on in another, in another, uh, level of consciousness.
[00:38:29] FERNANDO GONZALES: amplification of our, of our, of our consciousness by. Quieting our mind. What always strikes me is For those of us who have experienced a lot of trauma, a lot of times we live outside of our body, like we're maybe in the headspace, or maybe we're not even there, like we're like dissociating, and there's so much work to come back into our body and be in, like, really embody self, develop a felt sense, like I can feel in my body, sensation, and, and my body's communicating to me through sensation.
[00:39:13] ERIKA STRAUB: And then a lot of this work feels like it kind of takes you out of body or out of this perception. I'm curious if that's true or what you.
[00:39:30] FERNANDO GONZALES: I think it integrates. All your bodies because you have the experience in the physical body as well So you have the experience in the physical body, but You transcend as well the physical body But when you are having the macro dose, for example, you are living in this room as well so for me precisely it's about integrating all the experience through your different layers of reality and Transcription by CastingWords And the body obviously is the most important one after the trip, because all the trauma is, is in our physical body.
[00:40:14] FERNANDO GONZALES: So if we can release the energy of the trauma for our physical body, then we heal. So I think it's like opening the door, like, uh, trespassing the, the, the space and time. Observing. In another dimension, probably you can see from other lives as well, you can see our karmic connection sometimes, depending very much on your own experience, how to flow in the, in the realm, and then the whole idea is to come back and to heal your physical body.
[00:40:51] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah, there's a coming back piece. That's really, really important. And, um, I think what I'm, I'm also really discovering about the body in this is, and I can just speak for my myself, but the pain body, like the level of pain body. That I've, you know, been living with or avoiding or finding ways to not feel, but the actual level of pain that is alive in my body and like, wow, I've done such a great job of managing that and enduring, but now it's like, oh, there's this whole other possibility that like the pain body can be more released.
[00:41:33] ERIKA STRAUB: Like I don't have to keep enduring it in that same way, like, yes, there's gonna, there'll be pain in life and all of that, but it's more of this, like feeling it and releasing it as opposed to like living in it. In such a caged type way, well, I think in pain as well as precisely you said, you have, we have many levels.
[00:42:01] FERNANDO GONZALES: One is the sensations, you know, and it has been proven, for example, when you have a chronic pain. Or a chronic disease, all your body is much more sensitive to pain because it's like if you have like a higher connectivity to the pain. So what happened with the micro dose as well is that it, uh, break the program on the pain and relief system.
[00:42:27] FERNANDO GONZALES: So it's like regenerating and have a new experience about, about pain. That's, that's one part. The second part obviously has to do with how pain affects our perception of reality, affects our, uh, about being grateful with life, affects how we, how we connect with, with joy, with beauty, with, with the people that surround us.
[00:42:54] FERNANDO GONZALES: So it's, it's pain. It's a very difficult topic because when you are there, I mean, it's easy to say, but when you are in pain, you forget about, about everything. It's just the physical body that it's just like asking for help. Do you feel like we empty pain out or do we not? And maybe that's not an answerable question, but that that's just present for me.
[00:43:28] ERIKA STRAUB: Do we empty this past pain maybe out of the vessel or not? I think it is more how we relate with pain because, uh, I mean, someone that has, we have been working very much with people with, with chronic pain, with fibromyalgia, for example, with chronic diseases and the pain remains, but the relation that you have with pain changes.
[00:43:57] FERNANDO GONZALES: And it's not, and now the idea is that pain do not rule your perception of reality, but you can really, uh, manage your relation with pain and have a more, uh, fulfillful life. How does, how does that relationship shift? Like, what is that new relationship? For example, because we are, sometimes we are very identified with pain, and it has a secondary benefit.
[00:44:26] FERNANDO GONZALES: For example, being the center of attraction, you know, like, Hey, have you seen this poor guy, Fernando? He's in pain for a long time. And you identify We've been in pain and that brings a lot of attention. That's a secondary benefit. So there are some people that are so identified with pain that they don't want to release a pain because they they have for example The attention of their kids they have their attention of their family Yeah.
[00:44:59] FERNANDO GONZALES: So it has to do very much as well with losing the identification with the guy or the woman that is in pain. Yeah. That makes so much sense. Um, I don't, I don't think you knew we knew each other yet at this time, but my whole work in the world was under the title, anxious female, like that was the name of my business because it all started for me to really face what I was going through and then teach about it.
[00:45:27] ERIKA STRAUB: But it was such an identity I was attached to. And it's been a lot of disorientation and renegotiation, but that's not who I am. And, and this process has really helped solidify that, that I, I don't have, um, an attachment to being an anxious, Person anymore, or a person who has panic anymore, like that doesn't feel like that's part of my identity.
[00:45:58] FERNANDO GONZALES: Wow. That, that's precisely what we were talking about. No, it's about releasing the ego. It's about understanding that we are more than a physical body. Eh, congratulations. This is, this is the whole idea. Something like just so clicked in cause it's, it's not that I never ever feel anxiety anymore or have experiences of it, but it is, um, so different.
[00:46:27] ERIKA STRAUB: That's wild. Like I'm, I think I'm just integrating something right now, like in real time with, with what you just said. Cause anxiety brought a lot of pain, like a lot of pain, but also like a lot of different ways and how I related with people was really wrapped up in that. And what is anxiety? Anxiety is, uh, an imbalance on our chemistry.
[00:46:51] FERNANDO GONZALES: This is the way that our brain can let us know that we have an imbalance. No, it's by, by emotions, irritability, anxiety, depression, chronic depression. The greater the chemical imbalance, the nearer we go to, to depression. And this chemical imbalance happens. To our perception of reality and from our traumas that affects our perception of reality.
[00:47:15] FERNANDO GONZALES: So everything is linked. Yeah, it's all connected. What, what would you say? Like someone's path would look like if they were interested in, in starting in, in plant medicine? Like, what would you, I know everyone's different, so it might not be a universal answer, but what would you maybe loosely say a path would look like if someone was like, I want to explore this modality.
[00:47:41] ERIKA STRAUB: I want to explore what it would mean to heal in this way. I think the, the microdose is a great approach because it's super safe. You can do it in your, in your, in your house. You can do it in your daily life. You don't need a chairman to guide you, you know, uh, you do not lose consciousness at all. I mean, you are much more concentrated and focused and aware.
[00:48:05] FERNANDO GONZALES: Than before, and it's a beautiful process of growth, healing, and it's fun as well. So I think the microdose is a great starting point, and it's powerful as well. Yeah, yeah, I, I truly, truly feel that way. It's um, I haven't spoken on it too much yet publicly because I really, Wanted to like be deeper into the process to, to have some legs to stand on, to, you know, speak to the embodied experience of it.
[00:48:36] ERIKA STRAUB: But I think it would be such a helpful place for so many people to explore.
[00:48:45] FERNANDO GONZALES: And, you know, the microdosis is for everybody. Not all the plants are for everybody. You know, the, uh, But the microdose is super safe. My three kids, they, they, they all take microdosing. The people that I love the most take microdosing. My wife, my father, my mother, my nephew, my sisters. I mean, I give microdoses to the people that I love the most.
[00:49:10] FERNANDO GONZALES: So, uh, It connects you, connects you to your heart, to life, to joy. So, for me, it's a process of liberation, the microdosing, because it allows you to understand more who you are, not who you think you are. And from there, you can have a more comfortable life. clear decision making every day, you know, there's a line of Carl Jung that that I love that he says While your unconscious mind keep being unconscious, it will rule your life what you will call it destiny Uh, so for me the integration of our unconscious mind to our consciousness is a process of freedom because it allows you to observe our patterns our neurosis and make our decisions from this space of You More freedom.
[00:50:01] ERIKA STRAUB: Yeah. So much more safety too. And more freedom. Yeah. So if we were going to bring someone in on this journey, what would be the best way for someone to connect with you or to discover your work? Well, eh, I think we can do it with, I'm going to share with you a link. And if you want to share that link with, with the people that you're going to invite, that would be, that would be amazing.
[00:50:34] FERNANDO GONZALES: Eh, For the people that, that don't know me, we have a research institute of neuroscience, we have been working for the last five years doing research on the motions and the effect that it makes in our perception of reality, mainly in the six neurotransmitters in charge of our physical health, mental health, and, uh, and how we perceive the.
[00:51:01] FERNANDO GONZALES: Our personal reality, because it's very relative. This is why it's a personal reality. It's serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, acetylcholine, GABA, and glutamate. So we have done one of the largest studies in the world in motions. So we have a lot of information that can support your process. We have helped more than 5, 000 people in 32 countries.
[00:51:25] FERNANDO GONZALES: We have more than 20 protocols. So, I'm sure that we have one protocol for you. We create personal formulas, as you know. We create your personal formula, Erica. Your personal protocol that fits precisely for your actual process of life. And we do the follow up as well. So, you don't feel alone in the process.
[00:51:46] FERNANDO GONZALES: That's the whole idea. Yeah, and definitely the connection I've been able to have with you throughout the process has created an extra level of safety through it, like someone so deeply understanding the science and the spiritual part of it and trauma and having gone through your own journey and experiences.
[00:52:06] ERIKA STRAUB: It's, it's really deepened and enrich and my. My process. Thank you. And half of the institute has to do with integration. We have more than 50 doctors working with us. We have those 50, especially we have doctors, we have psychiatrists, we have therapies, we have psychologists. Uh, I mean, we have a lot of people for supporting the integration process, depending on your needs, depending on your actual process of life of life will, uh, generate this, uh, Protocol that will fit very much in what you need and what are the challenges that you need to face.
[00:52:48] FERNANDO GONZALES: In the next month. Yeah, we will definitely make sure to link all of all of this information with this with this show so people can find this work and connect with you and whether that's through me or directly through you will navigate that pathway but I'm just I'm so deeply grateful for the space that you've provided for me and the healing that's happened in this container and over such a short period of time is It's life changing, and I'm just so deeply an honor to walk a path with a rebel spirit.
[00:53:31] ERIKA STRAUB: There is some truth to that. And definitely a much larger path ahead of us, I think is opening and unfolding and I'm so excited to. To explore what what space we get to hold together and create from there. Thank you for for the space. It's an honor and looking forward to have many other conversations with you.
[00:53:57] FERNANDO GONZALES: There will be many, many more. Have a beautiful evening. Thank you very much for your time. You do the same. Bye bye. Bye.