A Season of Solitude with Imani Tutt
“It's always something tied to your childhood. That’s everyone's starting point.”
-Imani Tutt
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Favorite quotes and a full transcript of this podcast can be found below.
Imani Tutt
In an episode of personal storytelling, Imani and I disclose the cognitive dissonance we both faced during our Master’s programs in Psychology; Studying attachment trauma while simultaneously being in toxic relationships.
From a place of intimate experience and resonance Imani shares why people stay in toxic relationships, the power and clarity available to you in a season of solitude, and how to let pain transform you.
Imani directs us back to childhood as the starting point, teaches us the core issues anxious attachers struggle with, and the antidote to shame.
She redefines love for us, and invites us to stretch into the acceptance that someone can deeply love you and hurt you in moments, but the repair needs to have more bandwidth than that hurt.
To expand a relational container, it will require you to find the edge of service, sacrifice, and how to walk back from Self abandonment.
In this Episode you’ll learn about:
Healing anxious attachment
How to surrender control and receive instead
Why you stay in toxic relationships
Why humility is the antidote to shame
Why seasons of solitude deeply serve you
The difference between sacrifice and Self abandonment
Releasing the fear of being alone
How to offer corrective experiences in relationship
Integrating into relationship after a season of solitude
About Imani
Imani.intouch is a LMFT, Relationship Coach and a Disciple of Christ who believes in the power of change and growth. With a compassionate and authentic approach, she helps clients confront their inner wounds and break free from harmful patterns. Imani creates a safe and playful space for clients to explore and transform, all while facing hard truths and cultivating an embodied awareness. Her unique perspective makes the healing process enjoyable and transformative while teaching individuals how to heal from insecure attachment and alchemize the relationship with their insecurities.
Favorite Quotes from the Podcast
“It's always something tied to your childhood. That’s everyone's starting point.” - Imani Tutt
“Solitude is an identification process.” - Imani Tutt
“You're going to stay in an unhealthy relationship longer if your solitude doesn't feel good.” - Imani Tutt
”If you anxiously attach, it's because you have a control problem.” - Imani Tutt
“People are usually going to hear things from their wounding and where they are in regards to their level of emotional maturity.” - Imani Tutt
“You can't teach someone how to be honest. “ - Imani Tutt
Transcript of the Podcast
[00:00:00] Erika Straub: This is Return to You Podcast with me, your host, Erika Straub. Each week, I'll drop in with thought leaders and soulful healers for expansive conversations on resolving the conflict trauma created between you living and loving directly and intimately. To be fulfilled and satisfied in this lifetime, you have to bring your true self forward.
[00:00:24] But first you gotta ask the question, who am I?
[00:00:34] I'm so excited to introduce you to Imani Tut. I had such a lovely conversation with her and I can't wait for you to hear it. Imani is an LMFT relationship coach and a disciple of Christ who believes in the power of change and growth. With a compassionate and authentic approach, she helps clients confront their inner wounds and break free from harmful patterns. Imani creates a safe and playful space for clients to explore and transform all while facing hard truths and cultivating an embodied awareness. Her unique perspective makes the healing process enjoyable and transformative while teaching individuals how to heal from insecure attachment and alchemize the relationship with their own insecurities.
[00:01:18] Let's drop in. Hello.
[00:01:22] Imani Tutt: Hello
[00:01:24] Erika Straub: Super curious about your work and like where you started. Like, I know a lot of us, it's like so rooted in our personal journeys and All of that. So I would just, you know, love to know kind of where, where your story started in terms of seeing all of your work.
[00:01:43] Imani Tutt: Yeah, yeah, I think, um, first things first, it's always something tied to your childhood. Like that's like everyone's starting point. Kind of like a. Certain things happen and kind of like lead you to where it is that you are. But, um, as a kid, I was, I was always very like shy, very, um, introverted for the most part.
[00:02:01] Um, but very observant around my, um, about my environment. Um, I grew up in a faith based home. My parents were like super, super strict. Um, and so I think by the time, like, like growing up, I've always kind of stayed to myself, make sure I was that girl, that good girl, you know, following the rules. Doing whatever I needed to do to kind of, like, not mess up the system in any way.
[00:02:23] I think by the time I got to college, I started realizing how much my upbringing had an impact on who I was and how I was showing up in my relationships, um, and in positive ways, but also in some really, really harmful ways to, to myself and also towards other people. Um, and so I knew that I wanted to do something in regards to Helping others and I thought that I was going to be a teacher.
[00:02:46] I went to school to be a teacher. Um, and then I hated it I was like doing all of this I was like, oh, yeah. No, I'm I know that I I do feel called to teach Um, but not in this way at all. Um, and so after I got my bachelor's I took A year off to kind of just figure out what I wanted to do. And I was like, Oh, you know, I, I'm the person that everyone comes to for advice.
[00:03:10] And, you know, I'm always giving and all these different things. And I was like, let me look into, um, what it is to be a therapist. So I took some time to really study that. Ended up getting my master's in that. But I think a really pivotal point for me was realizing that a lot of the things that I was studying, um, in the textbooks and the things that the professors were saying that made so much sense.
[00:03:30] I never really took the time to do my own inner work. And I think that's the thing that actually makes you a really good counselor, coach, you know, whatever the case may be when you when you take that time to really reflect on yourself. And the way that you show up, um, so while I was in my master's program studying to be a therapist, I was in a really, really, uh, toxic relationship at the same time.
[00:03:49] And so it was very conflicting, like, you know, you're learning all these things and then you're, you're dealing with your own personal stuff. Um, and that's, that, I've, I've had a fair share of relationships like not work out. Um, but that relationship in particular really broke me down. And I, I think that was when I really, really hit rock bottom of like, okay.
[00:04:09] It can't be everyone else. There's something that I'm doing that's like contributing to this as well. Um, so I really took the time to kind of just like be in isolation, do a lot of my own inner work in regards to the way that I was, I was showing up, how a lot of that good girl programming was really a mask a lot of the times.
[00:04:29] And so I would, I would get into relationships. being who I thought someone else wanted me to be. Um, and then I would be very resentful and my resentment would turn into anger and, you know, all these different things, people pleasing, like all the things that, you know, I'm pretty sure you and I will, will talk about.
[00:04:44] Um, but I, but I started doing my inner work. Um, and I, and I really, I think that's Inevitably, and I really started working on myself in that time. I finished getting my degree and I got my license and everything. Um, and I think also after I had hit that rock bottom, that was also the thing that propelled me into starting my page.
[00:05:01] Um, my money and touch page. Um, that page really started from a place of brokenness. Um, a lot of my diary entries. I've turned that into content, um, but more so from the perspective of how I, how I saw myself then, but how I see myself now and the gems and the lessons from each of those vulnerable moments.
[00:05:23] Um, a lot of my writing and, um, a lot of my videos have a lot to do with things that I've personally gone through too. And what I see my clients going through and friends and family. Um, but that's a little bit of just how it is that I, that I got here.
[00:05:37] Erika Straub: I love it. I, oh my gosh, I, I can't even believe the level of resonance I'm feeling right now with your story and just like that, that mirror and that complexity and contrast of being in grad school for a master's program on this particular like topic and field, and then looking at your relationship and being like.
[00:05:58] Wait, yeah, like how much that contrast revealed. I wonder, um, what did you first start to see in that contrast as you're learning about like relationships and communication and like really deep healing and then. looking directly in this container and being like, something is not right here.
[00:06:19] Imani Tutt: Right, right. I think it was, I would say that like my, my grad school program didn't really get too much into like self introspection, inner child work, like a lot of the things that we talk about.
[00:06:31] But I think it really was about guiding a client into seeing how they contribute to the thing that they complain about.
[00:06:40] Erika Straub: And
[00:06:40] Imani Tutt: so when I, when I was, when I was doing like role playing and all these different things, I'm like, I'm going through like. Such chaos and turmoil in my own relationship. What am I doing to contribute to some of that?
[00:06:52] So I think it required me to take some level of accountability and responsibility. Um, and I would, I, at the time I was very much more so very anxiously attached. And so a lot of the times that was the thing that was driving a lot of the decisions I was making. And usually when you're, when you're operating from that place of insecurity.
[00:07:11] It's a lot about what other people are doing and how they're messing up and how they're not holding themselves accountable and how it's impacting you and I, and I think learning all of the, it was like my clients at the time because I was doing like, um, I was interning my clients at the time and things that they would bring up.
[00:07:27] Was really a mirror for me in regards to how unhappy I was in that relationship and how I was abandoning my boundaries and my morals and my values because I was afraid of being alone. Um, I didn't, I didn't really know who I was outside of connecting with another person. So it's like when you're, when you're sitting across from someone else and they have a similar situation as you, it's like, wow, how do I even offer this person like anything when I'm going through the same thing?
[00:07:54] Like I'm just as lost as you are. So I think I started finding more solutions for that after I did more of like my own studying outside of what I learned in grad school, but I think that was that was an indication for me that something was wrong. Also, also the other thing too, I think, being on a path where you're in school, you're committing yourself to something for a certain amount of years, you're disciplining yourself in different ways.
[00:08:20] When you're in a relationship with someone who maybe has a completely different path. Um, that can also, um, cause a lot of tension and, and stuff too. So, so I think just even the path that I was going on in regards to, um, continuing my education and all these different things, I think that was also the other thing that was causing a lot of ruptures in the relationship too.
[00:08:42] Yeah.
[00:08:43] Erika Straub: Absolutely. Like such different types of containers, like side by side. I think it's so interesting with grad school because you're right. It doesn't necessarily always drive into like this deep inner work that we need to do. Like it might arise some of these theories or things we start to see ourselves in on paper, but it's really like what we do afterwards.
[00:09:06] And Like speaking to my grad school experience, it's like it just really showed me what trauma was. Right. Which I wasn't like on the radar. Like that was not in my vocabulary. The idea of safety. Right. What neglect or emotional abuse or any of that. Right. You know? And I started putting these like really potent ideas about trauma, at least on the radar.
[00:09:28] And I don't know if that happened for you. Yeah. But for me, just starting to be like. Oh, there's this thing called trauma and I'm deeply resonating with it. Like, what does that mean? Like what next?
[00:09:42] Imani Tutt: Right, right. Yeah. And I remember the first time I was talking to my mom actually about some of the things that I was learning and I was like, yeah, I think I probably need to go to therapy.
[00:09:51] She's like, Oh, like, did I do something wrong? Like, did I like not raise you correctly? So it just, it just goes to show how like, It's still even something to this day that's so taboo, you know, and we think that that, um, we've maybe failed or we've done something wrong if we resonate with it to some extent.
[00:10:07] But, you know, I think when you when you really look at it, everyone has experienced some type of you Rupture some type of trauma, something that's interrupted the way that they've been able to develop and really learn healthier ways to connect and disconnect and and all these different things. And so I think grad school really just brought an awareness to that.
[00:10:27] I think it was after I graduated. And once that relationship ended the way that it did. I was then like forced to actually become like, to be, to be, um, the patient, to be the client, like, like not be the one that's just like preaching all this stuff. But like, now I'm the one that's sitting in the seat and I got my own therapist and we started unpacking like a whole bunch of stuff too.
[00:10:49] Erika Straub: Yeah. Like now I have to actually embody this. I have to live this. I can't just. Yeah. intellectualize and speak to it, but I actually have to embody it. It sounds like that ending of that relationship really like initiated you deeper.
[00:11:05] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. I always tell people that I say that to my, um, my clients. I say this to the people that I have in, um, the individuals I have in my membership program.
[00:11:14] I'm like, had I not Experience that there would be no Imani in touch. There would be no classes that I do. There wouldn't be any of this stuff. And so, um, sometimes we look at the things that we go through in life and it's like, Oh, like, why did it happen in this way? Or why couldn't this person treat me better?
[00:11:29] Or had it been this way, this would have happened to me. And it's, it's just that, you know, the reality of it is, is that we go through pain, um, because pain produces something in us. It births something in us. And if you're willing to look at it from the perspective of what is this teaching me, what's the lesson and the wisdom that I gained from this experience.
[00:11:49] Um, I think that's really how you propel and push yourself forward. Um, what I, what I do notice a lot of the times is pain, um, can keep people stuck. And when you're stuck, that means you're now in suffering, right? Because, because now I'm in resistance to the pain. I did that for a long time too. Like, like being in resistance, like, Oh, I don't want to look at it.
[00:12:07] I don't want to deal with it. Um, but when you finally allow it to just be what it is, you come into an acceptance of some of the things that maybe happened in your past that was, that was painful things that hurt. Um, you look at your role, especially now as an adult, you know, as kids, we really. Can't hold ourselves accountable that much because we're kids, but as an adult now and the choices that we make in the behaviors that we exhibit in relationships, I think both of those things really walk hand in hand, having that level of introspection, coming into a level of acceptance, and then also being able to hold yourself accountable.
[00:12:44] It's all interconnected.
[00:12:46] Erika Straub: Yeah, for sure. And I'm curious, like, what allowed you to, like, open to the pain or to, like, receive the pain? Because I think that is some of the biggest work we can do is, like, remove these resistances we have to them and actually receive pain. The pain and yeah,
[00:13:06] Imani Tutt: I think it was my, my season of solitude.
[00:13:09] Right. So, so, you know, like when a relationship ends, it never ends. Like it's not like, Oh, we're breaking up and that's it. It's like, you know, you go through a breakup and then you're probably still hanging out with the person or sleeping with the person. And so it's, it's kind of like lingering. I think I didn't start to do the work until I was forced to do it.
[00:13:28] And that's because the betrayal that I experienced in the relationship was so hurtful. Um, and it, it had a lot to do with, um, infidelity, um, a lot of things. I'm just going to say that, but like, infidelity, emotional abuse. Like, I think the pain breaks you down so much to where you don't have any other choice but to spend time with yourself.
[00:13:52] Um, and, and when I, when I first got out of that relationship, like I had some friends that were kind of like, all right, girl, like, you know, get back on the apps and like, you know, go out and like go to the bar, go to this party with me, like do all these things. And I, and I think it was All those things with good intent, um, but I think they were really more so distractions and I found myself in those spaces more anxious, more depressed, like feeling like I was I was doing the same thing over and over masking how I really felt.
[00:14:20] I was really sad. I was in that relationship for about Three, four years, I would say so it was, it was, it was something where I realized I was like me continuing to engage and trying to distract myself with all these different things is actually making it worse. Like, it actually physically started feeling terrible.
[00:14:42] Um, so I think it got to a point for me where I was like, no, I gotta like, just go into some type of isolation, just a season of really being with myself. reflecting, learning about myself, and in learning about myself, learning how to be more confident in who I am. Like, like, once I, once you, I think that's the thing about isolation, it's supposed to teach you your values and your boundaries and your morals and, and how to like, Yes, understanding these things like, okay, in relationships, I want someone who's honest and I want someone who's respectful and I want all these things, but to actually build your confidence in those things, especially if you didn't see that growing up, if that wasn't something that you got in relationships, you have a conscious understanding that, yes, I want it.
[00:15:27] Okay. All of these great things, but I don't know if that's something that's possible for me, based off of this template, this track record of what I've seen over and over again. So that season of isolation, you, you go through that identification process, but then you crystallize it and you're more confident.
[00:15:43] You build your confidence there that it's possible for you. Then, you know, there's a whole nother, uh, healing that you do once you start engaging with people again and connecting. So I think that was, that was it for me for sure. Isolation, solitude.
[00:15:56] Erika Straub: Totally. And you're so right that I think sometimes our first initiation into pain, it's not a choice.
[00:16:03] We're not like, I'm going to receive this. I'm super available for this. And like, I'm here for it. It's like something so catastrophic is happening internally. Like I have nothing left in me to fight.
[00:16:15] Imani Tutt: Right, right.
[00:16:17] Erika Straub: I'm just going to name this because it's wild. Like I was going through grad school and in a toxic relationship.
[00:16:23] Like I'm just sitting here like, Oh my God. It also ended with betrayal and infidelity and it was a reckoning and I didn't choose to go into solitude right after it, it actually. Ended up that I went into another relationship like a couple months later for another four years And worked all my shit out on that person who all you know Who of course was mirroring and working their shit out on me?
[00:16:50] Yeah Then after both of those having to go into that solitude and it wasn't even by choice still like it was still Driven by this anxious attachment of like I am not willing To sit with yourself and confront the fear of aloneness. And as you were talking, like something so deeply clicked that our fear of aloneness is really because we don't know ourself, right?
[00:17:17] And if you know ourselves, that fear really dissipates because there's no doubt. Um, and I think that's something that we're all afraid of when
[00:17:23] Imani Tutt: we know ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. And you have, you have something to now ground yourself on, I think, because I always tell my clients, you know, You're going to stay in an unhealthy relationship longer.
[00:17:32] If your solitude doesn't feel good. Right. Like it's like, oh, I don't want to go back to being alone. So like, I'm going to be, I'm going to stick to this relationship with this person. Your solitude has to feel better really than, than anything else. So that way, when you're engaging and connecting with someone and you can see, wow, there are like major.
[00:17:51] Value differences that cannot coexist. It's like, you know what? I can still continue to care for this person and love this person, but I'm, the best thing, the most loving thing I can do is let them go and find someone who aligns with them. And then I do the same thing for myself. And going back into my solitude feels good.
[00:18:08] So I'm okay with doing that. I think we, we stay, and I know I did, we stay in these relationships so much longer when solitude feels like death.
[00:18:18] Erika Straub: Yeah, yeah. So afraid of it will cling to anything because we feel like it's so much safer to cling to these other things and come back into our solitude. And what a reckoning, especially for anxious attachers, my myself included to go into that solitude.
[00:18:36] Like, how do we enter that? Like what helps us? Um, and then finally start to face this fear of aloneness and, and just to be in our own energy and, and to figure out who we are.
[00:18:48] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the biggest thing for me, um, that was the first time that I had, I said, I need to see a therapist. I
[00:18:55] Erika Straub: can
[00:18:55] Imani Tutt: I have no clue what I'm doing.
[00:19:01] So I remember when I went to my therapist. She was so, so helpful, um, because it wasn't really about her going in with like these interventions when we first started doing sessions. I was so heartbroken and at my lowest point. I remember she had an orange couch. I remember going into her office and sometimes I would just lay on the couch and just cry.
[00:19:22] And sometimes our sessions would be her letting me cry and then just like giving me tissues. To kind of just like let it out. And I appreciated that she was able to hold space for me without telling me to change something right then and there. Right? Because, because what, what, I don't know if she realized that she was doing this.
[00:19:40] She was allowing me to have my feelings. She was allowing me to have my experience and it was okay for me to have my experience. When a lot of what I, What I would see growing up was if your feelings are making me uncomfortable, change them. If your feelings are making me uncomfortable, you need to shift.
[00:19:56] You need to do something different. And that was a part of the issue that I was having in my relationship. I was self abandoning. I was people pleasing. I was doing all these things. And so just, just even that alone in the beginning where she allowed me to just use that time to just. And I remember there was one time, I think I cried for like 20 minutes straight.
[00:20:18] Um, and she was like, I wish I could just go into your heart and take out the pain. But she's like, the best thing that you can do right now is to sit with it. And I'm like, Oh, it was like crying more and more and more. Um, but, but I think that alone was so powerful because she was, she was mirroring to me.
[00:20:37] This is how you sit with your stuff and you're not always going to have a solution right away. There's not always going to be a technique or something that we can do. So sometimes it's, you have to learn how to just be where it is that you are. Um, and, and I think I remember that. Um, and, and I think that was like the first step for me in really, really understanding that I could.
[00:21:01] Be with myself. Granted, obviously it didn't feel good crying the whole time, but I could be with myself. I could sit with it. I survived it. Right. I would, I would go home and then come back and then the next week I would cry and you know, all these different things. And that's not what I did the whole time.
[00:21:17] Like, eventually I started opening up and we started talking and stuff like that. Um, but I think my therapist really, every time I would, Okay. I would say something that was happening in the relationship or anytime I was, uh, rationalizing things or, you know, a lot of what it is that we do as anxious attachments, she would always bring me back to myself.
[00:21:35] Like, how do you feel about it? Like, it sounds like you don't agree with that. It sounds like there's, there's something going on there. Um, so I really appreciated her holding space for me and also bringing me back to myself time and time again, because as anxious attachments, we drift. And she was like, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:21:54] Come back, come back here to your center. So I think, I think that was the biggest thing for me. And I would recommend that for anyone, if you have the resources to do so, um, being able to have, whether it's a coach, therapist, like someone that's going to be able to guide you through, um, what it is that you're experiencing.
[00:22:10] Erika Straub: Yeah. Just to have someone hold space like that. Yeah. I think at first it feels, especially for anxious attachers, it feels really scary to take up that space. As someone's holding it, it's all of a sudden like, what do I even do with all this space? Like I actually have to like release? Because I think, and I don't know if this was your experience, but I, I feel like when we're so in our anxious attachment, we think we're so available and so available, but we are not and dysfunction and distortions and self abandonment.
[00:22:46] And we are not available in any capacity. Like we're just in this kind of give to get manipulation better. And so then when someone genuinely is just holding space for us, it's like, uh,
[00:22:59] Imani Tutt: right, right. You're disoriented. I don't, I don't have a role to show up in anymore. Right. Like I have to learn how to just be.
[00:23:07] Step and learn how to receive
[00:23:09] Erika Straub: and receive. Yeah, that's like, I think that is the biggest lesson. Anxious attachment really is like, how do I receive? How do I,
[00:23:17] Imani Tutt: yeah,
[00:23:18] Erika Straub: I receive.
[00:23:19] Imani Tutt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, that was, I definitely remember experiencing some of that tensions. I remember my mind sometimes being like, I feel like I'm not allowing her to do her job right now, like, like kind of like, cause I was a therapist at the time too, well, at least in grad school, you know, the whole shebang, I was like, I feel like I'm not letting her do her job.
[00:23:37] And, you know, like continuing to just focus on this other person's experience and making it my own. And, and I think a lot of what it is that we do too, as anxious attachers is we, we project a lot of our own shame. Um, our guilt like, you know, whatever it is on to other people rather than rather than really, I think when you're when you're learning to really get to a place of security, it's about okay.
[00:24:00] This person is going to have their own experience and that's okay. If there is something that I'm doing or saying, that's like a little off. I trust that this person will bring it up. If need be, right? But like, I have to learn how to stop trying to manage everything. I always, always tell people, like, if you have an anxious attachment, you have a control problem.
[00:24:23] Wherever you are on the insecure attachment spectrum, control issues. Yeah,
[00:24:28] Erika Straub: yeah, yeah. So confronting to that control. Like, how do we even begin to let go of control? Right,
[00:24:36] Imani Tutt: right, right. Where do we
[00:24:38] Erika Straub: even start?
[00:24:39] Imani Tutt: Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I know for me, um, and my faith has really helped me a lot. Um, in this, it's realizing that we aren't as self sufficient as we think we are, right?
[00:24:52] Like we, we need each other, right? We're here to, you know, Serve each other and to love each other. Um, and I think a lot of the times when you're trying to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and do everything on your own and making sure that you're managing everything. One, it's to avoid pain, which is something that you absolutely cannot avoid.
[00:25:12] Two, it's trying to control the outcome or manipulate the outcome in a way that works in your favor. Because for some reason we believe that if we can just get it in the way that we want it, all of our problems will go away and, you know, we'll be fine. And it's like. Time and time and time again, it's shown to us that it doesn't work that way.
[00:25:30] Sometimes you think that you're making the best decision and it's, you still get the opposite outcome than what you, what you hoped. Um, I talk about this all the time with my clients when it comes to having difficult conversations with someone. You can say it in the most honest, respectful, Kind of way, but people are usually going to hear things from their wounding.
[00:25:50] Um, and where they are in regards to their level of emotional maturity. Um, so you can, you can try as best as you can, but you cannot control another person or control the outcome of something. Um, and I think when I, when I, I've, I've learned to lean on my faith a little bit more, um, in regards to really being able to surrender in that way.
[00:26:12] I think it requires a level of humility to realize I'm not in control, right? And what, what I think is best for me all the time probably isn't what's best for me. And if it's not working out the way that I want it to work out, it's probably not meant to work out the way that I want it to work out. But being able to also trust that if it's not working out the way I want it to work out, whatever the plan is, it's, it's probably better than anything that I could even imagine.
[00:26:37] There's something there for me, regardless of whichever way that it goes.
[00:26:42] Erika Straub: Yeah, I love that you, you're bringing faith into this because we have to have some connection to source. Yeah. And in my opinion, to even walk this path of healing and healing trauma in and of itself is a spiritual journey. There's, I don't think there's any other way to, to frame it and hold it.
[00:27:01] And. Mm hmm. Hey Mike. For us to truly surrender, there has to be something that we can deeply believe in. That's like bigger than us. It's bigger than the outcome. Yes. Not about the other person. Like there's just something bigger to surrender. Right,
[00:27:18] Imani Tutt: right, right. Yeah. And I, and I think, um, I've learned that even when it comes to, um, things like acceptance.
[00:27:26] And and things like, um, being able to forgive so you can really release and and move on. Um, I've I've always found it very difficult, um, to try to get to a place of accepting what happened in your childhood, what happened in the past relationship. Personally, for me, the only thing that I've seen that works is actually being able to release it.
[00:27:49] When you're able to hold yourself accountable, you're able to say, okay, this is mine to own. This is what this other person's thing is to own. Um, but, but I think it's, it gets to a point where I have to get myself out of like this victim consciousness of what happened to me, what happened to me, what happened to me and how I suffered.
[00:28:07] And all these things happened because of it. And look at how I've grown in spite of it. Right? And so when you, when you can look at the people in your life who have done things that have harmed you, um, and that have changed who you are internally, it's, it's getting to a place where I think, um, you can start to actually be a little bit more grateful when you, when you can, the first step is seeing what it produced, right?
[00:28:32] If it produced more bitterness and more sadness and more anger, Right. Right. Right. You still got some work to do. But if it produced, if it produced, um, more love, learning, um, different things about yourself, if it produced more wisdom, we look back at those experiences, and it's like, Thank you
[00:28:50] Erika Straub: for
[00:28:51] Imani Tutt: doing what you did.
[00:28:52] Thank you for showing up in this role and leading me back to myself and teaching me all these things that I really don't know if I would have learned that had you not shown up the way that you showed up.
[00:29:04] Erika Straub: Yeah. Yeah. I think of it too. And this is like a newer, uh, space and reckoning for me, but when the pain comes full circle to pleasure.
[00:29:14] Imani Tutt: Right, right.
[00:29:15] Erika Straub: It's like, wow, that's really, really deeply resolved and released because my idea of release previously was like, okay, like I'm available now to feel it all. Like I can be in my pain body, but I'm still containing it. I'm still holding it. And, and so now it's just like the cycle and the cycle has no potential, right?
[00:29:39] It's just this continuous same thing trigger pain body. Okay, contain regulate trigger pain body, you know, like same dance, but when That pain can actually like move somewhere and be released. Like there is this return to pleasure,
[00:29:54] Imani Tutt: right? Right. Yeah. It's a very
[00:29:56] Erika Straub: similar acceptance, acceptance and approval of what happened because it's like, yeah, I wouldn't be who I am.
[00:30:04] without all of this that has happened.
[00:30:07] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can start to see the benefit and why it happened the way that it did. Um, and I don't, I don't think, you know, anyone that's listening to this, I think if, if, if a wound is very fresh, it's going to be very hard to see the bed, like what would be the benefit of somebody cheating on me?
[00:30:22] You know, like, um, so I, I think it does take. Um, time, but you also working with time and being able to, um, really, really, really learn about yourself. Um, I see, I tell people all the time, you know, you see a lot of these different pages on Instagram, Twitter, um, and some of them are focused on like, um, Narcissistic abuse and, you know, all these different things and it'll really start laser focusing on what the other person did and how they were mean and, you know, abusive and all these different things.
[00:30:54] And I think having those types of pages are really helpful so that other people can, like, um, see, oh, there's other people out here who have gone through the same thing that I've gone through. I think you can find a lot of resonance with that. However, I do think sometimes those pages can be really unhelpful because it'll keep you in this victim consciousness where we never start to turn inward and look at, okay, I've been in this cycle of narcissistic relationships over and over and over again, but there has to be something that I'm also doing too that has got me into this pattern of narcissistic relationships.
[00:31:29] And, um, you know, so I think that's why it's important to have a balance of being able to validate your experience, but then also getting to the other side of it where it's like, yes, all of these things are valid. They always will be valid. But then also getting to the other side of I have to also look at my role in it too, because the relationship is co created.
[00:31:48] Erika Straub: Yeah, I mean, there's so much more than just like the awareness and the like labeling and the definition. I think that orients us right like now. Okay. Other people have also had this experience. I'm not alone. People can really like help me understand the dynamic here. But we have to move beyond that because that's not actually healing.
[00:32:07] Now we're just in the awareness of all the shadow and all the pain, but like you spoke earlier, we're just going to stay in the suffering and kind of in that victim triangle, whether we're the, the bad guy, the rescuer, we're in all these different faces of victimhood. When we're in that, it's like, we're always looking for right or wrong, good or bad.
[00:32:28] And who can I blame? Like it's always looking for the bad guy. Who's the bad guy? And we might internalize it. It might be us. Yeah. We'll externalize it in someone else, but to truly get out of this, this victimhood, we have to have a reckoning with our own shame, no capacity to take accountability or responsibility.
[00:32:49] And if it's just, I'm going to take responsibility for my piece and you take yours, it's still a reckoning with shame. Like we have to confront our own inadequacies or beliefs about that to get out of victimhood. And I think anytime shame gets triggered and I can speak for myself, it pulls me into that.
[00:33:08] That warp and it's so interesting to watch who I become in that space and that regression and the behaviors that show up and the indirectness and the control and the cling and the, you know, it's like, it's such a dense energy, but that is shame. Shame is victimhood. You know, how do we reckon with shame?
[00:33:28] How do we move to the other side? What is the other side?
[00:33:32] Imani Tutt: Yeah, absolutely. I think what you, what you just said just now was, was so powerful. Um, I, I think like shame keeps us from vulnerability. It keeps us from accountability as well. It keeps us from so many different things that actually contribute to having a healthy relationship with someone else, right?
[00:33:50] So like, I'm in a relationship now, um, and this is the healthiest relationship I've ever been in in my life. Um, and I've had to reckon with shame a lot because I think when you grow up. In an environment where you're being conditioned to be perfect and to look a certain way and to be a certain way, um, anytime that you realize or someone's pointing out something in you that maybe has made them uncomfortable, or you realize that maybe you've made a mistake, if there's a lot of shame in regards to taking responsibility in how your actions happens.
[00:34:22] Contributed to something that ended up being really, really dysfunctional or really, really harmful. And I think it takes, once again, a level of humility. I think shame, the antidote to shame is humility. I have to humble myself and realize, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a human being. I don't always get it right. Just because I, I am a human being.
[00:34:41] Did something that was harmful to someone or I did something wrong that doesn't take away from my innate value, my essence as a human being, right? Like, these are my behaviors that have been influenced by all of these different things, but that is separate from who I am as a person. And so I know, um, I think about it like the way that you would parent a kid.
[00:35:03] I don't have a child or anything, but I would think ideally, um, like when your child does something that's harmful, um, it's, yeah. I love you, but this behavior is unacceptable. Right? This behavior can be really problematic, really, really harmful. Um, I think about when I, when I was a kid, I remember I stole a snicker from the candy store and my mom, like she disciplined me in that way.
[00:35:26] She was like, you know, I'm always going to love you. I care for you, but love is also discipline. Love is also correction too. And being able to do that in a way that's not abusive or not. condemning you, but more so of like this behavior. If I were to allow you to continue to do this, you're going to be in jail.
[00:35:47] But it's time you're an adult, you know, so I, so I think, I think in society, that's the thing we have a very. warped idea around what love is. And I think we think that love is about just guessing everything and oh, I accept everything. But love is really about, um, I love you to always be here for you and to serve you and to be kind to you and to honor you.
[00:36:10] But I also love you enough. To correct you, tell you the truth, tell you when you're doing something that is not okay, something that can be harmful to a relationship, harmful to yourself. And so love, I think, incorporates really this beautiful balance of, um, serving each other, but then also being able to call out things that aren't helpful to being able to coexist in a relationship with another.
[00:36:37] Erika Straub: Yeah, we do have such a warped vision of love. And as you're saying that, I'm just so deeply sitting in, like, love is really like repair. Yeah. Like offering reparative experiences. And I think that's what most of us missed in childhood, right? There's just all these ruptures. Yeah. And like disconnection and shame or anything that we did wrong.
[00:37:02] Um, But it's really about the repair. Like, I love you so much that we can repair.
[00:37:09] Imani Tutt: Right, right. Yeah. And that's, I think that's one of the biggest things that I've learned, um, in my most recent relationship. Like it's, we've really focused on, you know, it not being me against you. Like we really are a team. Um, and anytime that there is some type of conflict, we're I'm on your side, but you know, I'm not trying to, you know, shame you or condemn you or punish you, but it's really coming from a place of, I love you and I want to repair whatever the damage that's had, that has been done.
[00:37:37] Um, and I think if we take that with us, when we parent our children, when we connect with our friends, when we connect in romantic relationships, I think we'll see less of kind of like the gender war thing we see online. And what are you bringing to the table? What are you Into the table and it being more of like, no, like we all, we, we both, you know, we're, we're, we're contributing something to this, right?
[00:38:03] We don't, we don't make choices and they're just done in a container. Right. And it only just has an impact on us. The things that we say, the things that we do, that that's life, right? It has ripple effects. into how we show up and how that has an impact on others. And so I think if we can adopt that, um, that mindset of more curiosity, less, um, less condemning and, you know, pointing the finger and stuff like that, I think relationships would be Better.
[00:38:35] These days, healthier. These days,
[00:38:37] Erika Straub: absolutely. And I think that's like, like, kind of bringing this back to a bit ago. What happens when we give ourself that solitude, right? We get so much clarity. We have to reckon with shame. We have to reckon with fear. But then we have to move back into relational dynamics like not it.
[00:38:54] You know, totally choose if you want to be with a romantic partner or not, but we have to move back into relational paradigms because that is life, right. To be in relationship with all that is here, but it's also the deepest level of healing. Like we can only heal to a certain degree on our own, but like, if we're actually truly committed to healing, Trauma to healing our attachment system to actually deeply regulating our nervous system.
[00:39:23] The only way we can do that is in relationship. Like if connection is not something we can find safety in, we will never actually be regulated. Like we will actually never be in like the truest depths of love and, and unconditional love. Like, I think that's. This whole journey is like, how do I shed all these conditions in something that is so unconditional because it's so safe and so free and we can navigate conflict.
[00:39:51] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I think that's, that's the biggest thing too. Like your, your season of solitude allows you to go so deep into yourself and understand yourself, like everything, like. Like the, the shame, the nooks and the crevices, like all of it. Now I have the ability to do that in a relationship with someone else without making it their problem or, you know, like, like a lot of the, of the pointing fingers that we're used to doing in relationships, we can now collaborate with someone else in relationship and know how to do it in a healthy way that preserves the relationship, not continues to create these ruptures.
[00:40:28] Um, so I, I think that's a profound thing. I think sometimes when we're healing, sometimes we can go too far off the deep end where we're in solitude and then we stay there. And now it's like, we don't know how to, how to connect anymore in relationships. But I think it's, there's a lesson you learn in solitude is another lesson that you learn in relationship with someone.
[00:40:45] Erika Straub: Yeah, and that I think that bridge to like there's an initiation that happens again, right? Any coming together of two people? There is a reckoning. That's that happening, right? It's so confronting because when you get to a place in solitude where like you really have done such deep healing there is kind of a There's peace, but then there can also kind of be a flatness and a lack of growth because you're not being confronted, right?
[00:41:12] You're not having to open your heart even wider. And so then you get into these relational paradigms and it's so confronting. Yeah.
[00:41:21] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. Even, even now, you know, I'm very transparent with this, even as a therapist. Cause I try to, I'm like, I'm a human being.
[00:41:31] But even there, there are times like, I tell people a lot, I, I struggle a lot with patients. I've always struggled a lot with patients, probably a product of anxious attachment to, um, or just a natural human being issue. But, um, my, my partner is a very, very patient person. And so he, he calls out like. Hey, like, you know, you just got to breathe sometimes, like you just got to like, you know, chill out or, or like, you know, be able to effectively communicate what's actually going on, like, like underneath this, like, tell me more about that.
[00:42:03] Like we've learned to kind of do that in relationships when we can recognize, okay, I have a strength in this place and maybe that's not really your strong suit in this place. And I, because I do have a strength in this place. I can be the one that can actually model that and help to, um, I think, I think it's important to, um, be able to model and teach your partner certain things.
[00:42:27] Now, this is very, very nuanced because I think you can't. Teach someone how to be honest, right? Like I can't teach you like basic characteristics that have to be there, right? But, but I think we can, when it, when it comes to something that our partner may struggle with and we understand that their intent is good and their heart is soft and it's open and it's willing to learn.
[00:42:51] I think that we can be great models to each other in regards to, okay, I see that this is something that you're struggling with. Let me meet you exactly where it is that you are right now and get to a place where we can repair this, get to a place where we can, um, coexist and, and have a harmonious relationship.
[00:43:08] But I am not a patient person. Still working on it. Um, but I love the fact that I am with someone who is very, very patient and models that even with, like, with his actions, not even like, Saying, oh, be more patient. But like with his actions, very like grounded and a lot of the times it's not about you.
[00:43:31] It's like other people are showing up from this certain place, like very, very good when it comes to
[00:43:36] Erika Straub: Yeah. Yeah. Just like when you are in your lack of patience and they can stay in their patience.
[00:43:42] Imani Tutt: Yeah. There's
[00:43:43] Erika Straub: so much just repair and rewriting happening on like a visceral body level, like in those.
[00:43:49] Imani Tutt: Yeah.
[00:43:50] Yeah. Cause I'm used to the back and forth thing, like my emotions now changing someone else's integrity.
[00:43:58] Erika Straub: Right.
[00:43:59] Imani Tutt: I've also learned that too. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you are going to respond in the way that you know, how the best we know how, but that's not going to change how I choose to show up. And I think that that's, that's really modeling what it is to be a self actualized healthy adult that who I am, my character does not change.
[00:44:18] Based off of what you're doing and the choices that you make, like that is something if we, if we co regulate, we co regulate. If you need to self regulate, you do that, but my integrity is going to remain. Um, and I think that is a beautiful, beautiful thing.
[00:44:31] Erika Straub: Yeah. I mean, that's intimacy, right? Like that's autonomy meeting and interconnection meeting, but it's, it's really coming from this place of autonomy and autonomy is when we're in integrity with who we are.
[00:44:45] And like that has to be in place for intimacy to actually happen and that's when our relationships then get to be healing spaces, like regenerative, right? Like reparative and not just reenactment.
[00:45:01] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, I don't, I'm probably butchering this quote, but it goes something like, um, People are going to be the source of your pain, but then they're also going to be the source of your healing.
[00:45:11] Right? So we hurt in relationships, but then we also heal in relationships. It's like, you can't do one without the other. I think that's a beautiful way to kind of put how, um, really at the end of the day. Relationships lead us back to ourselves and they also lead us back into right relationship with each other.
[00:45:29] Erika Straub: Yeah. Oh, it's so, it's so true. And like, I think for the perfectionist part in me, it's like accepting that like someone can deeply love me and hurt me. That's, that's not actually abuse, like having to like recode that, that just because this person is hurting me in this moment, it's on maybe even just their own autonomy, right?
[00:45:53] Not letting like my wounded parts or my perfectionism or my control of how I think they need to be or show up or on and on and on, like finding space for like autonomy to not be so personal and being able to receive, like the person I love does hurt me. Yeah. And. Yeah. We can repair and the healing is so much bigger and has so much more capacity and bandwidth then that hurt.
[00:46:19] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, when you, when you think about any model of a healthy relationship that you've seen, at least I know for me, that's always the bottom line, right? Like, like whatever happens in the relationship and I'm not talking about things like. Infidelity or abuse and people are just sticking around.
[00:46:37] No, no, no, no, no, but being able to have conflict and the couple knows how to stay together. Right. And I think that happens when I'm considering the other person. And I really understand that my, my, my purpose in this relationship. I was just, I had a client earlier today. I was just telling her this. If you have a value of.
[00:46:57] Serving and giving right to be in a relationship understanding that it's, it's not going to always be about me, but it's also considering the other person too. If I have that value to serve, and I get into a relationship with someone else that has that value to serve the relationship is naturally reciprocal.
[00:47:13] And so what do we have now? An infinity sign of this is my value. I give it out. This is your value. You give it out. Naturally, it's, it's not like this, this forced thing and I got, um, I got a lot of slack. I think a couple of weeks ago, I posted about how I am a firm believer in sacrificial love. And there were some people that are like, I don't want to sacrifice anything.
[00:47:34] And I'm like, well, we have to, we have to be able to kind of distinguish the difference between. Sacrifice and serving someone and also self abandoning, right? Because I think I think I used the example when I went through a death in the family over the summer. Um, my partner sacrificed not getting paid at work for a whole week.
[00:47:54] to be with me, right? Because I was really, really distraught. I was hurt. So that would be, that's not a compromise. That would be considered sacrifice because I don't have anything to offer you and you're not getting paid from your job. That's something that he decided to do. Right. And then, and then self abandonment is when a lot, a lot of what it is that we do when we're operating from a place of insecurity, like it's rooted in fear.
[00:48:15] I'm giving up my values and my morals and my boundaries to be in a relationship with you. And that's never.
[00:48:22] Erika Straub: No, not at all. And, and you're right. Like there is a level of service that is needed in our relationship containers, but it has to come from self or it's not service.
[00:48:34] And it's an edge. And I think, you know, we're constantly exploring that edge. Like how far can I stretch evolution here? And for our love to deepen without abandoning myself. Right. And then we find that edge and we're like, Ooh, I kind of crossed it. I need to look back a little bit or like, Ooh, I found a little more.
[00:48:54] Spaciousness and this stretch and like, look where I'm now able to meet you. Like, look at our capacity has grown. And I think about the relationship container for me that I'm in right now. And it's so much about receiving truth. And. You're right. You can't teach someone honesty. Yeah. No. And all we can do is like really undo our indirect ways of how we attempt to communicate our truth or our needs or our wants or our feelings.
[00:49:25] That's the deepest work we can do. But when we can receive each other's truth, even when it hurts, because damn, it has. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, able to receive the other person. Yeah. It's such a beautiful place. And I think that's how we transmute shame.
[00:49:43] Imani Tutt: Yeah.
[00:49:44] Erika Straub: Like the deepest level of intimacy.
[00:49:46] Imani Tutt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
[00:49:48] I think, um, I, one of the things I've learned too is when it, when it's happening in that way, in a relationship where we're considering each other, we're serving each other. That's naturally the thing that fills you up. Right? It's, it's like, I don't, I don't, I'm not walking away feeling like depleted. I'm not walking away feeling like I completely just abandoned myself all the time and this person doesn't give me anything.
[00:50:09] You like, I think when both people are able to, um, like, like I said, really have that value. I think it makes things so much more manageable. There will be conflict. There will be hard times. There will be parts where it's like. Uh, I think I did kind of self abandoned in that moment, or I think I did, you know, say yes when I really wanted to say no, like, you know, a lot of these things will happen, um, but being able to know that the relationship is safe enough for me to bring that up, for us to talk about what just happened in that, in this moment, um, I think that's the biggest thing because we're, Perfect.
[00:50:42] As we, who, who you are when you first meet someone is not going to be the person that you remain, right? I am not the same person that I was at 18 and that I'm, that I'm now almost, almost at 30. So it's very, very different. And I think you have to be willing to grow and be willing and open to seeing your partner shift and change.
[00:51:05] And I think not like in these drastic ways where they're one person and then they're like, Completely opposite from who it is that you met, but I think, um, hopefully growing in ways that contribute to their own personal growth and to the health and the growth of the relationship. I think that's how relationships inevitably last.
[00:51:25] Erika Straub: Yeah, there has to be growth or else it's decay, like there's no other, other option. How beautiful it is to let someone influence influence us in that way, you know, to release our defenses and our power moves and be like, I want to let you move me and influence me and grow me and vice versa. That's a beautiful place when that happens, when connection actually expands you.
[00:51:51] Imani Tutt: Yeah, yeah. And that's why that that foundation of safety is so important. It's a, it's a pillar for the foundation of a relationship. It has to be safe for me to show up as myself with all of my flaws, my strengths, my weaknesses, my imperfections. It has to be safe for me to do that. And that's why I always say, especially when it comes to unhealthy relationships.
[00:52:13] It's, it's not going to work if that's not a part of the, the pillar, you know, we, we do all this stuff when we try to get the other person to change and, you know, all of these different things and it's like the minute that you try to, you're trying to get someone to change who it is that they are, there's a need that's not being met.
[00:52:29] That's automatically indicating to you that there's some type of boundary violation or some value, something that's not being met in that moment. And we have a choice to make at that point. Either I accept. This person for who they are, or I have to kind of say, Okay, you know what, maybe we are different.
[00:52:47] Our differences can either be okay, maybe they can coexist, or maybe they're so polarizing to where it's like, this wouldn't really be beneficial for either one of us.
[00:52:56] Erika Straub: And those are the truths like we have to look at and it's, it can be excruciating and terrifying and there has to be safety there has to be safety for us to mess up.
[00:53:07] There has to be safety for us to apologize for us to walk it back for us to own it like that safety to me has a lot to do also with flexibility, right,
[00:53:17] Imani Tutt: right,
[00:53:17] Erika Straub: that we really allow this person to to crash and burn and try again and show up again and same with ourselves and of course we're not talking about these huge like infidelities or stuff.
[00:53:28] Right, right. Yeah. I mean, all these micro moments of connection, because we're going to miss, we're going to miss bids for connection. We're going to not have capacity on some days when our partner needs capacity. And so it's a lot about like safety and flexibility in those, in those moments, I think are huge.
[00:53:44] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, one of the things I've, I've really learned is that A lot of us are a lot more self centered than we think. And I think when you're in the relationship with someone, you start to do more reflecting of like, oh yeah, like sometimes I can be like really, really selfish. Um, and, and I think it's like, once again, humbling yourself to come to that realization, holding yourself accountable and saying, you know what, I really value this relationship and I want to do something different.
[00:54:14] And sometimes it even just starts with. I may not know what the actual repair looks like, but even apologizing, right? Like even saying, you know what? I'm really sorry because I can see how that really hurt you in that moment. And even, I think sometimes too, what I, what I see when I, when I used to work with couples, really an inability, inability to apologize.
[00:54:37] Even when you don't agree, right? Because I think sometimes we think validation is about, um, oh, I need to agree with this person in order for me to apologize in order for me to get it. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You may not ever
[00:54:52] Erika Straub: agree with me. There has to be a space to not agree. Like, and that, it's just the space of autonomy again, right?
[00:54:59] Like, I'm having experience and you're having an experience and they might just live adjacent and never like be the exact same and like, can we hold that? Can that be okay? Can I validate your experiences as real and as valid as mine is even if I don't
[00:55:15] Imani Tutt: agree? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we learned to do that in.
[00:55:20] Um, relationship. It's very hard to try to do that on your own unless you try to have like an imaginary friend or something. Like let me role play with like this fake person but you need to
[00:55:31] Erika Straub: have feedback. Preferably another, another human, but you know, that's a big deal.
[00:55:39] Imani Tutt: Exactly.
[00:55:40] Erika Straub: Try
[00:55:41] Imani Tutt: to like co regulate with your dog.
[00:55:43] It's like,
[00:55:47] I've done that a lot too. But there's like, you know, your pets, they love you at the end of the day, regardless, they don't hold you accountable for anything. It's
[00:55:55] Erika Straub: not the same, but it is a great little buffer in there. Right, exactly, exactly. Well, thank you so, so much for this conversation. So powerful and so much transmission came through and I just want to make sure everyone knows where they can find you and follow your work.
[00:56:13] Imani Tutt: Yes. So my Instagram is Imani in touch. I M A N I dot in touch. Um, it's the same thing on Twitter, Facebook, same handle. Um, my website is www dot Imani in touch. com. So type that in on Google, Instagram, all social media platforms, you'll be able to find it.
[00:56:30] Erika Straub: Lovely, and I'll make sure to link all of that, um, with the show notes so people can find you.
[00:56:35] But thank you just beyond, like what a beautiful conversation and I love learning about your journey and that you found this healthy partnership from where it started and all the work that you've done for yourself and now holding space for others, I just honor you. In that you and I got to connect and sit down.
[00:56:56] Imani Tutt: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Everything you said was so powerful. I'm like, Oh, this just flowed beautifully, you know? So so much for hearing me, for seeing me, um, you know, and even just inviting me into your space. I appreciate that.
[00:57:11] Erika Straub: Yeah. My absolute pleasure. I'm so glad we did it.
[00:57:14] Imani Tutt: Yeah.
[00:57:14] Awesome.
[00:57:15] Erika Straub: If this podcast feels in resonance with you, I would be so grateful for 30 seconds of your time to follow or subscribe to the return to you podcast to leave a five star rating and review and to share this episode with someone you love who's on the journey home to themselves too. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:57:38] I see you.